I just can't comprehend wanting to take a planeload of innocent people with you. If your life sux that badly then fine, end it. But others too? What's the point? It's easier to understand bullied kids doing that with guns in school than it is for apparently well educated and well off adults. I am not disputing that it happens at all, just that I don't understand it.
Jeff, you might want to have a look at this. The gentleman being interviewed gives the best analysis I've heard of the deliberate cut-off of the fuel on Air India 717. In age and experience, he is in a league with Ron Rogers, and has more knowledge specific to the Boeing 787.
Thanks, I really enjoyed it. Both the host and the interviewee seem quite reasonable and well informed. For those who haven't seen it, it's an episode of the podcast "Runway Life" in which a veteran 787 pilot explains why Air India 171 almost certainly was a pilot murder-suicide.
It's an interesting article. But also a bit of a stopover before the search for MH370 is restarted. I've been following Armada 7806 since it abruptly interrupted the search. What a tremendous distance that thing has sailed, from the west coast of Australia, to Singapore, Vietnam, and then past South Africa to Europe. It's now in port at Harlingen, in my Netherlands. Jeff, do you think they'll deploy this ship again in November?
I can't help but feel that they're definitely not active in the search for MH370. The weather condtion isn't bad at all right now. Yet, they're still going to wait for months. I get the impression they don't have much interest i finding the plane. Is there something else going on?
Well, the claim has been for months now that they were planning to restart in November, and I haven't seen any new information that contradicts that. So I think it's reasonable to assume there's a good chance that that will happen. Of course personally I think they're throwing their money away, but they seem to have plenty of it.
Yes, I know they planned it for November. But that fact also reinforces my belief that there's no real drive to uncover the truth. This, in turn, fuels conspiracy theories like Diego Garcia, etc.
It does keep me busy, and I enjoy following your articles!
Appalling in the sense that there is no basis in fact and it is utter speculation. You make up a scenario (and an awful one at that) and present it as if it were a fact, e.g., your sub-head: "The captain of Air India 171 devised a brilliant but awful new way to commit mass murder"! This isn't journalism. It's wild speculation; fiction presented as fact. It is NOT become increasingly clear that "in all probability it was a case of mass murder suicide on the part of the captain". This sentence is one of the most appalling: "Sabarwhal has invented a better way (from the perp’s perspective) to commit mass-murder suicide."
I'm sorry that you feel that way, Annette, and frankly I agree with you that the idea that the captain of an airliner would willingly kill his passengers is appalling. But as much as we might find the idea discomfiting, the fact is that no other hypothesis is able to explain the facts that we have in hand. Since the ramifications are chilling and pose a risk to the traveling public, it's urgent that we take them seriously and not bury our heads in the sand.
My point, Jeff, is that, yes, as journalists we can speak of possibilities, but we need to frame them in an ethical way, not turn them into fictional scenarios for which we have no proof, not least when they malign someone unable to defend himself. I disagree with you when you say that no other hypothesis is able to explain the facts that we have in hand. There are numerous valid hypotheses.
It is simply not accurate to describe the idea that the captain set the fuel cutoff switches to "off" as a "fictional scenario for which we have no proof." All of the evidence is consistent with that scenario. You say that there are "numerous valid hypotheses." Like what?
Sorry Jeff, I'm in the midst of finishing a major article so cannot go through the various hypotheses. I'm sure you know what they are. There is not yet proof that the captain set the fuel switches to off. If you really think it is OK to speak of the captain devising "a brilliant but awful new way to commit mass murder", then this discussion is pretty pointless. I'm an old-school journalist who deals in facts not fiction so we will never agree, I guess.
Hi Jeff. I look forward to your updates on finding MH370. I think your explanation of what happened makes more sense than any other, considering the specific type of aircraft, the availability of the electronics bay to passengers, and the mysterious turning on the tracking capability of the aircraft at a illogical time. I am hoping you might check this suggested scenario out and let us know what works and doesn't work with Bene Centiorem's hypothesis. Thank you very much, Mark
Thanks! I started to read Bene Centiorem's post and came to this: "MH730 was in a holding pattern coincidently during a time that Anwar was being prosecuted and there were some unconfirmed reports of negotiations being in progress between the captain and the Gov while the plane was in that holding pattern." Nope. Didn't happen.
Jeff, curiously enough the first time I heard of Richard Godfrey and WSPR was during a segment of 60 Australia. Godfrey was showing this graphic of a "holding pattern" just prior to the plane heading south. As I recall, he said that it lasted for 22 minutes, and speculated that Zaharie was either checking to see if he were being followed, or else conducting negotiations. That's when I concluded it was a cruel play for the support of the passengers' families.
That is what I thought. I didn't recall that there was any kind of negotiation for any reason, but I wanted your expert opinion, and I thank you for that. Jeff, the scenario you suggest and have been suggesting for some time is the ONLY one that makes any sense to me. The documented events you point to are simply ignored by others. I look forward to the day when your hypothesis of a bad actor(s) is proven and accepted. In the meantime I shall follow your podcast with great interest. Have a good one! Mark
Suppose, and especially if they find the fuselage of MH370, is there a scenario they might follow? If it's 5-6 km or more below sea level, it's probably too deep to recover the black boxes, let alone the bodies. In that case, they only know it's there, nothing more. Or have they thought of something else, do you know?
I'm sure there will be all sorts of proposals along these lines, and it might be possible to come up with a really effective way to prevent this exact scenario. But that will still leave the bigger issue, which is how to prevent someone who has been given control of an aircraft from using that control to destroy it?
I have kind of a counter argument to the whole thing or my own theory. I believe I heard about the crash about when it happened. (The recent one in India). I am currently a musician and used to be a cancelled check pilot, glider tow pilot, and glider flight instructor. The video I saw shows the plane landing as if skillfully controlled by pilots trying to ameliorate a grave situation. There also did not seem to be much if any of a fire. The flight was supposed to be about 7 hours and so should have had about 9 hours of fuel. Do to not much fire, I assess that it may have somehow had almost no fuel on take off and ran out in flight. Thus perhaps it had 9 hours of fuel on paper and a trace in the tanks. Thus poor management. That is my two cents. Cheers, James
Thanks for this. You write, "it has removed any doubts about if a ‘criminal act’ was performed by a rouge pilot. That has been clearly revealed..." I would disagree vigorously. If the case had been solved, the plane would have been found. It's no use to say, "Well, our theory's prediction didn't bear out, but we can't imagine that it's wrong, so it must be right." We have to try to achieve a deeper understanding, which is what this podcast is about.
I just can't comprehend wanting to take a planeload of innocent people with you. If your life sux that badly then fine, end it. But others too? What's the point? It's easier to understand bullied kids doing that with guns in school than it is for apparently well educated and well off adults. I am not disputing that it happens at all, just that I don't understand it.
I'm right there with you. I find it just impossible to comprehend.
Was there any possibility that the switches were flipped remotely? What did the voice recording of the crew indicate?
No, that's not possible.
Jeff, you might want to have a look at this. The gentleman being interviewed gives the best analysis I've heard of the deliberate cut-off of the fuel on Air India 717. In age and experience, he is in a league with Ron Rogers, and has more knowledge specific to the Boeing 787.
https://youtu.be/scI3zPP-QT4?si=fkiH_qWqRlzfgmog
Thanks, I really enjoyed it. Both the host and the interviewee seem quite reasonable and well informed. For those who haven't seen it, it's an episode of the podcast "Runway Life" in which a veteran 787 pilot explains why Air India 171 almost certainly was a pilot murder-suicide.
It's an interesting article. But also a bit of a stopover before the search for MH370 is restarted. I've been following Armada 7806 since it abruptly interrupted the search. What a tremendous distance that thing has sailed, from the west coast of Australia, to Singapore, Vietnam, and then past South Africa to Europe. It's now in port at Harlingen, in my Netherlands. Jeff, do you think they'll deploy this ship again in November?
Frans, I think the word on the street is that the ship turned out to be too small for the job and when they restart they'll use a bigger one.
Jeff,
I can't help but feel that they're definitely not active in the search for MH370. The weather condtion isn't bad at all right now. Yet, they're still going to wait for months. I get the impression they don't have much interest i finding the plane. Is there something else going on?
Well, the claim has been for months now that they were planning to restart in November, and I haven't seen any new information that contradicts that. So I think it's reasonable to assume there's a good chance that that will happen. Of course personally I think they're throwing their money away, but they seem to have plenty of it.
Yes, I know they planned it for November. But that fact also reinforces my belief that there's no real drive to uncover the truth. This, in turn, fuels conspiracy theories like Diego Garcia, etc.
It does keep me busy, and I enjoy following your articles!
Thank you, Frans!
This is an utterly appalling article.
Appalling in what it describes, appalling in itself?
Appalling in the sense that there is no basis in fact and it is utter speculation. You make up a scenario (and an awful one at that) and present it as if it were a fact, e.g., your sub-head: "The captain of Air India 171 devised a brilliant but awful new way to commit mass murder"! This isn't journalism. It's wild speculation; fiction presented as fact. It is NOT become increasingly clear that "in all probability it was a case of mass murder suicide on the part of the captain". This sentence is one of the most appalling: "Sabarwhal has invented a better way (from the perp’s perspective) to commit mass-murder suicide."
I'm sorry that you feel that way, Annette, and frankly I agree with you that the idea that the captain of an airliner would willingly kill his passengers is appalling. But as much as we might find the idea discomfiting, the fact is that no other hypothesis is able to explain the facts that we have in hand. Since the ramifications are chilling and pose a risk to the traveling public, it's urgent that we take them seriously and not bury our heads in the sand.
My point, Jeff, is that, yes, as journalists we can speak of possibilities, but we need to frame them in an ethical way, not turn them into fictional scenarios for which we have no proof, not least when they malign someone unable to defend himself. I disagree with you when you say that no other hypothesis is able to explain the facts that we have in hand. There are numerous valid hypotheses.
It is simply not accurate to describe the idea that the captain set the fuel cutoff switches to "off" as a "fictional scenario for which we have no proof." All of the evidence is consistent with that scenario. You say that there are "numerous valid hypotheses." Like what?
Sorry Jeff, I'm in the midst of finishing a major article so cannot go through the various hypotheses. I'm sure you know what they are. There is not yet proof that the captain set the fuel switches to off. If you really think it is OK to speak of the captain devising "a brilliant but awful new way to commit mass murder", then this discussion is pretty pointless. I'm an old-school journalist who deals in facts not fiction so we will never agree, I guess.
Hi Jeff. I look forward to your updates on finding MH370. I think your explanation of what happened makes more sense than any other, considering the specific type of aircraft, the availability of the electronics bay to passengers, and the mysterious turning on the tracking capability of the aircraft at a illogical time. I am hoping you might check this suggested scenario out and let us know what works and doesn't work with Bene Centiorem's hypothesis. Thank you very much, Mark
https://www.quora.com/profile/Bene-Certiorem-FX-Trader
Thanks! I started to read Bene Centiorem's post and came to this: "MH730 was in a holding pattern coincidently during a time that Anwar was being prosecuted and there were some unconfirmed reports of negotiations being in progress between the captain and the Gov while the plane was in that holding pattern." Nope. Didn't happen.
Jeff, curiously enough the first time I heard of Richard Godfrey and WSPR was during a segment of 60 Australia. Godfrey was showing this graphic of a "holding pattern" just prior to the plane heading south. As I recall, he said that it lasted for 22 minutes, and speculated that Zaharie was either checking to see if he were being followed, or else conducting negotiations. That's when I concluded it was a cruel play for the support of the passengers' families.
It's a really a testament to the poor state of mainstream journalism that this man was given such a platform without any vetting at all.
That is what I thought. I didn't recall that there was any kind of negotiation for any reason, but I wanted your expert opinion, and I thank you for that. Jeff, the scenario you suggest and have been suggesting for some time is the ONLY one that makes any sense to me. The documented events you point to are simply ignored by others. I look forward to the day when your hypothesis of a bad actor(s) is proven and accepted. In the meantime I shall follow your podcast with great interest. Have a good one! Mark
Thank you so much, Mark!
Jeff,
Suppose, and especially if they find the fuselage of MH370, is there a scenario they might follow? If it's 5-6 km or more below sea level, it's probably too deep to recover the black boxes, let alone the bodies. In that case, they only know it's there, nothing more. Or have they thought of something else, do you know?
"Too deep to recover the black boxes" -- no. They've recovered a lot of stuff off the Titanic, this wouldn't be a significantly harder challenge.
Boeing is going to be forced to setup fuel switches in such a way that they cannot be switched off mid flight.
I'm sure there will be all sorts of proposals along these lines, and it might be possible to come up with a really effective way to prevent this exact scenario. But that will still leave the bigger issue, which is how to prevent someone who has been given control of an aircraft from using that control to destroy it?
Thank you Jeff!
I have kind of a counter argument to the whole thing or my own theory. I believe I heard about the crash about when it happened. (The recent one in India). I am currently a musician and used to be a cancelled check pilot, glider tow pilot, and glider flight instructor. The video I saw shows the plane landing as if skillfully controlled by pilots trying to ameliorate a grave situation. There also did not seem to be much if any of a fire. The flight was supposed to be about 7 hours and so should have had about 9 hours of fuel. Do to not much fire, I assess that it may have somehow had almost no fuel on take off and ran out in flight. Thus perhaps it had 9 hours of fuel on paper and a trace in the tanks. Thus poor management. That is my two cents. Cheers, James
Thanks for this. You write, "it has removed any doubts about if a ‘criminal act’ was performed by a rouge pilot. That has been clearly revealed..." I would disagree vigorously. If the case had been solved, the plane would have been found. It's no use to say, "Well, our theory's prediction didn't bear out, but we can't imagine that it's wrong, so it must be right." We have to try to achieve a deeper understanding, which is what this podcast is about.
Great point.